cgames 04 – Wallbuilders Live Radio Interview
Summary
This is an interview between Rick Green with Wall Builders Live and Thomas Umstattd Jr. about the dangers of digital gaming. Wall Builders is an organization that educates Christians about their godly heritage and how to be active in culture.
Links
Transcript
Rick Green: Welcome to the interception of Faith and Politics Walbuilders Live with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more at our website: wallbuilderslive.com, where you can get all the archives of our previous programs, catch interviews with Congressmen, Senators, activists, attorneys, all types of folks out there on the front lines of the cultural wars.Our goal here is to help equip you and inspire you, get you involved in whats going on in our nation. Being salt and light in every area of our nation. It might be the arts, it might be entertainment, it might be politics, it might be business, it might be the pulpit.
Where ever it is we can each have an impact on what’s happening in this cultural. We have a duty and a responsibility to do that. So hopefully you’ll tune into the program and also look at our articles and previous programs and go to our website and get the videos and DVDs and audios and everything where David has done phenomenal research on the founding fathers and their takes on the issues. We really try to take two approaches to every issue….both a Biblical and a historical approach.
What did the founding fathers say about this? What did God say about this in His Word? And what are the lessons we can glean from there?
Today topic, at first may seem a little bit different from what we typically talk about but it certainly ties into preparing and thinking about the next generation and preparing for the next generation of leadership and raising of young people and understanding the times and knowing what to do.
So we have asked our good friend and Patriot Academy graduate and also former speaker of the House for Patriot Academy, Thomas Umstattd, to come on and talk to us about his lecture that he does and also his efforts to warn folks about the dangers of digital gaming.
Thomas, welcome to the program.
Thomas Umstattd: Thanks for having me on today, Rick.
Rick Green: Mr. Speaker, as I used to call you at Patriot Academy, I appreciate you coming on and talking to us about this. I want you to know that I have tried or at least tried to implement a lot of what I learned from you by listening to your lecture on-line there at your web-site. So I have some things to share with you there. But let’s start off by talking about what got you interested in this and what are the dangers of Digital Gaming.
Thomas Umstattd: Well, I grew up as a gamer, I’m still a pretty young person, I’m 22. So growing up I played computer games and video games quiet a bit and my family and my perspective at that point and what most families look at it as is the content issue. So, kind of if the content of the games was O.K. then other than that they were harmless fun.
Rick Green: And that is probably what most people are thinking as soon as we say “Dangers of Digital gaming” they’re thinking that we’re fixing to do a show on the content of gaming and the violence and all the different things that are potentially out there in a lot of the games. That’s not where you are headed, right?
Thomas Umstattd: That’s right. I mean, games are violent and they have sexual content and cussing and all of that but the true danger, the hidden danger is a lot more dangerous. That is the addiction that can come with playing games.
Rick Green: Now, some people are going to say if they haven’t grown up playing them, you’re what? 14 or 15 years younger then me but I grew up playing games back when it was the old letarie and the little joystick thing with the one little red button and what you might consider to be quiet primitive in at your age but (laughs) at any rate my generation grew up playing games as well but the generation before us did not.
Certainly not electronic games and they did not most likely were not addicted. What do you mean by addicted? I understand being addicted to alcohol and other things but what do you mean being addicted to games?
Thomas Umstattd: Well, it’s fascinating. They have just started doing quiet a bit of research about this and what they’ve noticed and I’ve noticed in my research of this is that large amounts of people will play video and computer games for 60 hours a week or 80 hours a week or 100 hours a week…….
Rick Green: Who! Who! Sixty, eighty, a hundred hours a week? What are they doing for a job? When do they sleep?
Thomas Umstattd: Well, there is a guy that has lived across from me at school at a university and he didn’t. He hardly slept. He played probably 16 hours a day. He would wake up and he would start playing. He stopped going to class, he stopped going to the cafeteria. He would take quick breaks to go and grab some fast food and he would eat it while he was playing.
It pretty much destroyed his life. He quit going to work and he had to drop out of school. The effect of his gaming addiction was just as destructive on his life as that of an acohol addiction or a drug addiction. He is not at all an isolated case. There are hundreds of thousands of people all though at the United States and all though out the world that have similar stories.
We don’t see them because they are hidden. They are hidden in their rooms, in a dark playing so unlike the drug addict whose on the street and doing crime or something like that the gaming addict is invisible. So for a long time we’ve missed the problem.
Rick Green: Well, you know, and for those out there who might be listening and saying “this is off the wall and there is no way this could be true…” let me say to those of you who are Thomas’ age and have had any experience with this you are sitting there saying; “I know exactly what you are talking about.
I’ve been there, done that.” Guys, out there that are my age. You know you’ve stayed up until 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 o’clock in the morning playing that game whatever it was, James Bond, or whatever the particular game was that had you….”I just have to get to that next level!” you know you’ve done it and you know how you felt the next day.
Tired. Worn out and not able to be the leader of your house and your business and everything else that you needed to be so this hits home to so many people out there. I hope some of you out there will be willing to say; “Look, I’ve been there. I don’t want my kids going though the same thing.”
I’ve been there, man. I can remember getting the, I can’t remember what it was now. It’s been a few years ago now but it was probably the first Nintendo game video for the kids, right?
Then I see this really cool, James Bond, kind of game thing and then I get to go be a secret agent! I find myself playing this game until, literally, until 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 o’clock in the morning. Not just one night but two, three, four, five nights in a row. I’m wiped out by the end of the week but I’ve just got to get to that next level. It’s real!
Thomas Umstattd: It is. People are like, “why does that happen?” researchers have been asking that same question, too. What they’ve been finding is that when someone is playing a video game or a computer game certain chemicals are being released in their brains. One of those is adrenaline and you probably already knew that.
The “Fighter Flights” the “Life or Death” situations puts our bodies, it kind of tricks our bodies into releasing adrenaline because we feel like death is on the line because in the game it is. People are trying to kill each other, you’re trying to kill others or you’re playing for a big sporting event or something like that.
But it’s actually the other chemicals that are more then adrenaline. One of those is endorphins. Endorphins are released when, it’s like what we call the “runners’ high” it’s a pain killer. You can get addicted to it. Those are released when you win or accomplish something in the game. It’s kind of like when you’re playing to get to the next level.
Each time you get to that next level you’re brain is kind of pinging out endorphins. You want more and more and more and you need to be able to accomplish more in the game to get those endorphins. But the big Grandaddy of the bio chemicals that your brain releases is dopamine.
Dopamine is the same chemical that is released when you take crack cocaine. In one publication that I read said “you don’t think that games or crack. You’re brain thinks they are because of the chemicals that are being released. So for some people that play and it’s not every one just like gambling doesn’t do it for everyone. They put one quarter in the slot machine and they crank it, they lose, and they are like “this is stupid, I’m never going to play again!” Other people put one quarter in the slot machine, the lose and they are like “let me do one more quarter.”
Rick Green: “It’s those positive thinkers like me! I know I can win! I know I can!”
Thomas Umstattd: That’s right! They are like “oh, just a little bit more.” That’s kind of like how it is with gaming actually. “Just a little more! Just one more level! Just five more minutes!” I think many parents know what that is like when their children are playing. “Oh, Mom! I’m almost done! Please let me stay on!” It’s really hard as a parent to say; “No, you have to get off now!” when the game kind of has the child in bondage.
Rick Green: You said something in your lecture that was so true that I have experienced with my own kids. That was if you don’t that this is like a drug then try to try taking the controller away before they’ve been able to save the game. It’s like you just blew up some body’s house! It’s a big deal!
Thomas Umstattd: Right! Because their whole body is waiting for that and as soon as they get to an accomplishment point that is when the bio chemicals are released. It’s like taking a cigarette out of some body’s mouth half smoked. They’re like “UH!” or right before they smoke it. Their bodies are anticipating it and their whole body is getting ready. But even more then the chemical addiction there is also an emotional addiction that can happen with some games. The worst additive wise are called “Massive Multi Player On line Games.”
These are, like, “World to War Craft” and “Ever Quest” and Room Scape. In these games it has everything that the other games have and it has the com-potent of being on line with a whole bunch of people where you can take on this role as being an elf or a wizard or something like that and you are competing and playing with real people. When you are not playing the game still plays with out you.
So what happens is we have this longing for significance and for greatness. Especially men. We want to go and conquer the world. We want to make a change and a difference. What these games do is offer an artificial substitute for that.
You can become great in the game and the other people playing the game will respect you because of your powers and they will go to you for help and when you fight you are beating real people so I think that is what really sucks people in because the more time you spend the playing the game the less time and energy you have to invest in becoming great in real life.
So the greater you become in the game the less great you become in real life and it sucks you in and before to long you’re living like the guy who lived across the hall from me. And you are spending as little of your life as possible in this virtual world.
Rick Green: So it is another world and it’s a real escape. I’ve talked to people who whatever they were doing for they’re day job was quiet boring so they felt like they weren’t really contributing and they needed that escape. They got that escape into the game and, man, once you get there and it feels good and you’re enjoying it. It is very addictive for all the reasons that you mentioned.
So how should we deal with this? Should our kids just go off cold turkey?
Thomas, before we get into how to deal with it and what are the alternatives and how do you feel the void talk to me about how just generational. How different is it for your generation? And the type of people that we are losing to this world of digital gaming. When you say 60, 70, 80 hours a week is that a one person situation or do you see that over and over again?
Frankly, 20 hours a week or 10 hours a week someone your age who is going to become a leader, what all could they do with those extra hours? You would have an extra 10, 30, or even 60 hours to prepare and train yourself for leadership.
Thomas Umstattd: When I start my talks I ask the question: “What is the average age for gamers?” Everyone is, like, um… maybe 8 or maybe 12 years old so they are thinking young but according to Electronic Software Association the common age is 33 years old.
Rick Green: You’re kidding me!
Thomas Umstattd: I’m not kidding. That is the organization that kind of knows everything there is to know about entertainment and software. They are the experts. What they have found is that it’s not just a young person thing. It is “younger” then people who were baby boomers who don’t play as much as generation X and generation Y.
Rick Green: I mean 33! You’re talking about the age where your family ought to be your number one priority. What are you doing for the Kingdom? You know, what are you doing in your career? What are you doing to impact the cultural. And instead you’re playing whatever you call those games. You are spending your time in a fake world.
Thomas Umstattd: That’s right. There is an organization on line, and I laughed when I first started doing research, I was, like, this can’t be real. But then I joined and it broke my heart. The call themselves “Gamer Widows” there are also “World to War Widows” “Ever Quest Widows”, we’re talking thousands upon thousands of women who feel like they have lost their husbands or their wives, because it is men, too, though gaming. They have gotten divorces. Their families have been broken or where it’s like they are divorced but they actually aren’t. Their husbands no longer talk to them. He only goes to work, comes home and plays the game and doesn’t interact with the children.
I have read stories that just break my heart. There was one woman who went though a very difficult pregnancy and her husband basically wasn’t there at all during the pregnancy to help her and her parents had to come in from out of town to help because she was on bed rest while her husband was with his game. She said that now her son was 2 years old and he has spent maybe 10 hours of quality time with his father….ever.
The dad isn’t even working because he lost his job because he couldn’t stop playing so the mom is having to support the child and the husband and herself just like she is a single mom. It just breaks my heart. What do you do when you’re in that situation?
Rick Green: I have no doubt. You have told me enough stories on here to know that it is real to that extreme and not just a few isolated cases but that it is actually an epidemic out there but that it is also real for the guys that aren’t spending 80 hours a week just 2 or 3 or 4 hours a night which is still going to add up to be 10, 12, 15 hours a week. Think of the things that you could be doing with that time not to mention what it is doing to your schedule.
I’m saying this because I have been there. That is why I think that this is so real and why it is so important to me. I had to make a decision. Let’s just go to what we should be doing and how to solve this.
Probably about 5 years ago I had to make a decision that I could not spend that much time playing these games and I, frankly, could not play for even 1 hour a week because I wanted to complete the game and it takes longer then that to do that.
So I had to decide. Was I going to spend time with my kids and raise them and be the best dad that I could be and try to be effective out there in effecting the cultural and in order to do that I gave up something that most guys my age enjoy doing. I had to go cold turkey. Thomas, I couldn’t just say I’m just going to play a little bit. I had to get rid of the games. I had to say “no, more!” Is that the best way to do it?
Thomas Umstattd: It can be. That’s how it was for me. I was pretty addicted before God kind of got my attention. I finally had to say, because for me I didn’t really have a family in the way that you did but it was coming between me and my relationship with the Lord. He deserves to be #1 in our affection. We are told to “Love the Lord God with all of thy heart and with all of thy soul and with all of thy strength.”
God wasn’t getting all of that. He was getting the portion that wasn’t going to gaming. He was getting the portion of my strength that wasn’t going to gaming and the portion of my soul that wasn’t going to gaming. What I thought about when I wasn’t gaming was gaming. What I talked to my friends about was gaming. It really started to consume my life. I was, like, man, Jesus gave everything for me. He deserves everything that I have to give back to Him. God really convicted me that it was a sin.
Rick Green: It sounds to me that you are saying that just like football or anything else can become it became a god. You were putting something before Him.
Thomas Umstattd: It did. That is one of the things that is difficult about idolatry. Things that aren’t bad, inherently, can still become gods. Like church activities. Those are good but for some people that is their entire life. It completely distracts them from the actual God, Jesus Christ, who they had given their life too. Work and food, all of these things can be the same way.
So, it depends. Some people can play in moderation and some people can’t. One of the challenges is is say you’re a parent and you have two children. One is totally into gaming. It’s all they wanted to do. If you let them play as much as they wanted to they would probably play until they fell asleep every night. That would be their life.
Then you have another child who would rather play outside. He might play a little bit here and there but it’s not really their passion. So the one child could probably play more than the first child but the challenge is is that you let the one who doesn’t have the struggle play and the other one is, like, “why does he get to play?” you know?
Paul talked about this when he was talking about eating meat turning into an idol. You know, if you’re eating causes your brother to stumble don’t eat meat. Be a vegetarian. If that is what it takes to keep from leading your brother into sin.
Rick Green: Well, what do you recommend to families. Here I am I have 4 kids. I have an 11 year old, an 8 year old, and on down and for me it became obvious to me that my oldest son was just like me in terms of wanting to play all of the time. Frankly, I listened to your lecture several weeks ago in anticipation of this interview and for about a month now we’ve shut it down, cold turkey. No games. We’ve cut all of that stuff out. In fact, all that we are doing for media is movie night one night a week. And, man, we’ve been blessed. It has been, on so many levels, a huge blessing.
Is that the best way to go? or is that to extreme? I know some people would say that that is to much but what do you recommend?
Thomas Umstattd: Well, I think that the treatment needs to fit the addiction or what the problem is. I think, that in many cases that can be very very fruitful to really cut it off. I know, one of my fondest memories as a family, because we had the same struggles with the television so every once in a while we would get rid of the TV and just read as a family. Looking back at my childhood, I loved that! We read all of these great books and so I think that can be very helpful but what is really important and this is a principle that I emphasize in my talk is that it is a lot easier to get the PlayStation out of the house then out of your child’s heart.
So one of the things that I did was put a one hour talk that goes though all of the dangers of digital gaming up on my web-site for free for people to watch and that they can have their children watch so that they can understand that mom is not being this mean ogre that is trying to take away their fun. It’s allot easier for a parent to say; “here is an Xbox don’t bother me.”
It’s loving to say; “this is destroying your life I can see the symptoms.” So one thing that I would encourage parents to do is to cgames.com, my web-site and to watch that video with their children and then discuss it and ask them what they think. I found in my family after I started giving this talk my youngest brother is basically scared to death of games now. They play a little bit but they are, like, “AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!”
Rick Green: (laughs) I agree with you 100% and I think that that is the best thing to do. So, Thomas, what do you feel the void with?
Thomas Umstattd: That is a great question because we need an adventure. That void, God gave us the desire for risk and for danger so that we would advance His Kingdom. Doing great things for the Kingdom is risky and it’s dangerous and it takes a lot of work and a lot of those same things that we were made to do and that we enjoy doing and in the game we are simply doing that in an artificial way. Really working with your child to help him or her find their calling. For me it was pretty generic of sharing the gospel.
I quit gaming and a couple of weeks later I heard this guy called Mark Cahill talk about sharing the gospel and I was, like, “I have gotta do this!” So me and a friend started just going to the mall, talking to complete strangers about Jesus and their need for repentance. That was scary! It was hard! My adrenaline was rushing and it forced my to pray more and it totally reorientated my life and my way of making myself happy to pleasing God. That is really, I think, the key thing with gaming. With a lot of these idols we want to make ourselves happy first, that is the #1 goal in our life instead of glorifying God first.
Rick Green: Yeah, and the other thing that you told me before is that you got very involved with Speech and Debate, the thrill and the adventure of that. I mean, it’s a challenge and it gave you the competition and a place to make a difference. I’ve seen you perform at Patriot Academy and you’re ability to influence issues and things and to me that is the cultural difference. I know that there are allot of guys out there like you who have the talent that you have and that God has blessed with ability to do these things and we’re losing them to this gaming thing because instead of them spending that time preparing influence on the cultural they are just lost in this gaming world.
That is why I wanted to do this show today because I know that there are parents out there who see that in their kids. There are young people in college and even people my age right now who are dealing with this. Take that 10 hours a week you’ve been using to game and take that time to develop a skill and influence the cultural. Imagine, Thomas, if everyone did that, spent that 10 hours a week sharing the gospel like you’re doing, campaigning for candidates that stand for righteousness, what a difference we’d make!
Thomas Umstattd: That’s right. That’s my dream. That is why I’m advocating this. My goal is to see thousands of young men risen up off the virtual battle field and thrust into the real battle field of advancing the Kingdom of Jesus Christ into every culture.
Rick Green: Oh, man! I love it! That is the perfect closing!
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Comments
Thank you, for informing the public. I have four boys and they are addicted to some form of gaming. About a year ago, my oldest son left because we told him he was no longer allowed to play World of Warcraft in our home. He went to live with his grandparents, (where he met a young lady that also plays games too, she has since moved to our area to be with him) who cut my son off of the games so he moved out. He went to live with his dad, finally dad got tired of the gaming issues too. He tried living with us again, started college and quit the game but within a couple of weeks he was back on the game. He is still in school but he is having trouble finding middle ground. His girlfriend doesn’t seem to be much help since she too plays the games only she isn’t addicted. Its hard for him to quit if he see her playing. I am scared for him. I have been praying that his eyes will be opened. I had no idea about the releasing of the endorphines into his system, its not any different than doing crack. Its funny how I have always told myself its only a game how much harm can it cause, now I know. I have got to get a handle on this before my other boys go down this same pathway. Please keep us in your prayers.
Wow. Thank you for sharing your story. I am praying for you. If there were a Christ centered rehab center for gamer addicts would that be helpful to you at all?
Thomas,
I heard you today on Wallbuilders live on the radio and I want to thank you for being the voice of God to me. I am 40 years old and have been struggling with video game addiction for years. I am currently in Seminary and for a while that allowed me to pull the focus of games and onto God, but during the winter break I found myself slipping right back into the pattern.
You are 100% right that our purpose in life is to glorify God and especially with me studying for a second career in ministry. Your segment today was the wake up call I needed. I have been praying for God to guide me and he often uses the teaching programs on KDKR 91.3 the radio station I listen to here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area to answer those prayers. Today he did that.
I have deleted my online game accounts. One thing that was said on the radio was that for some of us even a little is dangerous. As you said about caffeine, for me even trying to do a little bit or limit it will only lead to a slippery slope I won’t be able to get off of.
This also settled the discussion we have been having about the possibilty of getting a gaming console for the home. We have decided not to. This will free up so much time for individual studies as well as family bible reading time. My 9 year old daughter also is addicted to Webkinz, a video game related to stuffed animals that have been developed recently. We as a family are going to stop the gaming and focus that time back on what we can do to prepare for ministry.
I will pray that God blesses your work. You have a long road ahead because most gaming addicts are not Christians and won’t be very receptive to your message, but if you reach enough of us who are and we can in turn reach out to those in our gaming circle of influence perhaps we can reduce the devastation that this electronic idol is causing in our country and the world.
Bless you for your calling and thank you for being the wake up call for me.
David Johnson